tv Nancy Grace HLN March 14, 2010 8:00pm-9:00pm EDT
breaking news tonight. in the search for a 2-year-old florida girl caylee. six months of searching, culminate with skeleton remains found a heavily-wooded are 15 houses from the anthony home, confirmed to be caylee. a utility meter reader stumbles on a tiny human skeleton including a skull covered in light-colored hair. the killer duct taping and placing a heart-shaped sticker
directly over the mouth, then triple bagging little caylee like she's trash. bombshell tonight. ban the photos. that's what tot mom's fleet of defense attorneys are screaming to the trial judge. that's right. tot mom hopes the jury will never see photos of her out on the town in a mini ski and push-up bra. in the very days, the hours after she says her 2-year-old little girl caylee disappears. not only that, she wants he own mother's 911 call thrown out where cindy anthony admits tot mom's car smells like a dead body. and listen. that's the tip of the iceberg. the defense lists over 200 pieces of evidence they want banned from the courtroom.
why? because it's all damning. to top it all off, after raking in well over $20,000 for their stories, their photos, their interviews, now tot mom says she's broke. broke. the taxpayers, you and me, have to pay for her defense. that's right. price tag? the defense says at least $1 million. >> 911. what's your emergency? >> i called a little bit ago. the deputy sheriff. i found out my granddaughter has been taken. she has been missing for a month. her mother finally admitted she's been missing. >> web of es. that's what police say they're dealing with in the search for caylee anthony. >> casey is a very effective
liar. >> what is the address you are calling from? >> we are talking about a 3-year-old little girl. my daughter finally admitted that the babysitter stole her. >> you lied to your parents and friends concerning your child's whereabouts. >> the anthonys admit casey lied to them again and again. >> you're blaming nae you're sitting inhe zblal blame yourself for telling lies. >> there's absolutely nothg to find out, not even what i told detectives. i have no clue where caylee is. >> i need to find her. >> your daughter admitted the baby is where? tie babysitter took her a month ago, that my daughter's been looking for her. i told you my daughter was missing for a month. i found her today but ican't find any granddaughter. >> many photos racy and embarrassing. thousands of tos to, photos like that. >> from the time when caylee had disappeared. others are from as far away as a year ago.
>> i am upset now. i'm completely upset. one, the media's going do hve a freaking field day with this. >> she admitted to me she's been trying to find her herself. >> i don't think there's evidence released to show thing a ra va or the exists. >> there's something wrong today. i found my daughter's car today. it smells like there's been a damn dead body in the car. >> good evening. i'm nancy grace. i want to thank you for being with us tonight. bathe photos. that's what the fleet of defense attorneys are screaming to the judge. tot mom hopes the jury will never see the photos of her out on the town in a mini skirt and push-up bra happening in the days, the hours after she says her little girl, 2-year-old cayleedisappears. you found out she was going to be at a party and you went to that party. correct? >> yes die you wait there for
her? >> i was there and downtown, greater downtown area probably until 3:00 in the morning. >> private, reveal fog tos. >> how is that relevant as to whether or not she killed her daughter >> the state's going to contend a motive, a reason to kill her daughter is because it didn't fit in with her lifestyle. >> i'm frustrated and angry fly's something wrong. i found my daughter's car today and it smells like to's been a dead body in the damn car. >> anywhere we can restrict the information, it should be done. >> investigative interviews with casey's friend reveals information about rich social life for casey anthony not lonl after her daughter was lost from the picture tie going t, the partying. i don't know if you saw her in the american flag but that's from a no clothes party in may. >> i got off of work. left universal driving back to pick up caylee like a normal day. and i show up to the apartment,
knock on the door. nobody answers. so i called zenaida's cell phone and it's out of service. >> did casey ever take money from you by using your credit cards without your permission? >> it's not relevant to this ca. >> i don't care what i have to do. when i told them wou lie, steal, do whatever by whatever means to get her back, that's how i feel. it's the truth. >> straight out to kathi belchi joining us from ftv there in orlando. kathi, i have the motions here. there's over 200 pieces of idence they want banned from the jury's eyesight and ear sight, i guess. they don't want the jury to hear any of this. >> that's right. they don't. and you saw those pictures. they don'tant the your to see the the pictures, either before or after caylee disappeared. and there are 207 statements th i counted that -- plus
cindy's 911 call the defense wants to keep out of this trial. they say that the comments are prejudicial, hearsay, not admissionibad admissib admissible. only makes casey look bad. >> we are taking your calls live. over 200 pieces of eviden, tot mom's defense team wants thrown out. the jury will never see or hear over 200 crucial pieces of evidence to the state if they have their way. let's unleash the lawyers. susan moss, family law attorney new york. richard herman, renowned attorney out of the new york and high-profile lawyer out of seattle jurisdiction, anne bremner. of course, sue moss, of course they make her look bad. every piece of evidence that the state brings in this any trial makes the defendant look bad because it proves they're guilty. >> oh, these pics wlltay in the mix. the pictures before the alleged
abduction come in because they go to motive. the motive that mom didn't want to be a mom anymore. the pictures after this alleged abduction is also going to come in. she's supposed to be searching for the kid. not going out and getting drunk. >> richard herman, do they have a leg to stand on? asking for all these pieces of evidence, over 200 pieces of evidence, the 911 call, photos, reams of evidence be thrown out? >> they do, nancy, because in a death penalty case, there is a heightened level of due process protection afforded to a defendant and here the judge's going to have to carefully balance the prejudicial value of the particular items of evidence against the probative value of it. i think a lot of these -- >> put herman up, please. put him up. >> oh, boy. >> richard -- >> earshot. you said earshot. >> it will be -- >> i know. that was a boo-boo.
richard, it will be a cold day below when a 911 call is not allowed in front of a jury. what about it,bremner? >> except for that, when i was a prosecutor, we had stock brief that is said 911 calls are admissible. the fact of the matter is she's talking about something that happened before, how the car smelled before so it is not a classic excited -- >> anne bremner, she was talking about what the car smelled about at that moment when she was calling 911. >> she said it smelled like. e-d. >> when she opened it up. then she called 911. that is like i just heard a gunshot. heard, happened two seconds ago. >> the key is on 911 is i'm calling because there's a gunman at the door. i'm afraid. >> anne? >> 6-year-old sister. >> anne, just try, try to just be honest. don't take one side or the other. do you really think they're
going do throw out the 911 call? do you really believe that as a lawyer? put your reputation on this answer. >> nancy, okay. but nancy -- >> just answer. that's a yes/no. >> it's a -- this call, probably comes in a lot of it doesn't. >> okay. so i'm going to take that as a yes. >> you can take it as a yes. >> to ellie jostad, our chief editorial producer. hold on, ellie. let's take a look. liz, scroll through the photos for me they want thrown out. let's see. here is tot mom licking or let me say tonguing a bury to with another woman. getting groped by a shirtless young man. you know, nothing says class like urinating in a public parking lot. that one has a good chance of being thrown out. here's tot mom. who cares if she's dancing with another woman? it's immediately after she says her daughter goes missing. here we go. i said scroll quickly. there are more party photos.
typically, these would mean nothing to any of us except that they're taken in the hours, the days after she says her daughter is kidnapped in a public park. out to ellie jostad. what else do they want suppressed? >> well, nancy, there's a long list here but i st want to point out one thing really quickly. i'm looking at the 911 call transcript. the words that cindy anthony used were "it smells" with a "s" like a dead body. >> i respect that. go ahead, ellie. >> all right, okay. so here's a list of the items they want kept out. they want a lot of the testimony of things that witnesses claim, george, cindy, lee anthony described to them about what was going onn their house. for example, both lee and -- both jesse grund and his father claim that lee anthony claimed there was a fight between casey and her mother where they
>> i already answered the question. >> what can i say? you believe your child. >> i haveno one to comfort me. >> you put faith in everything. >> she tried to pin it on zanny the nanny. she tries pin it on people that don't even exist. >> you're not helping me help myself. >> what she told me and what i found out was two different things. >> jus a random question. >> sure. >> are there cameras in allf the rooms? >> i have no freaking clue. >> we are taking your calls live. out to michelle in south carolina. hi, michle. >> caller: hey, nancy. thank you so much for takingy call. >> thank you for calling. >> caller: thanks. your twins are beautiful by the way. >> thank you. >> caller: i have a comment and a question. >> okay. >> caller: okay. earlier you said that the prosecutors are making casey look bad but it's -- we have the evidence right in front of us
that is showing casey making herself look bad. you know? after her daughter came up missing. my question is, since the beginning of this case which i've watched like every single show that you've had on it, they constantly are talking about fairness and giving her fair trials and you hear about now the taxpayers are going to have to pay, you know, her dream team. and i just don't understand why she just can't take the initiative, you know, to just stand up and admit it. or at least be treated like everybody else has to be treated. >> you know, michelle, let me just throw this into that pot. number one, iidn't say the prosecutors are making her look bad. that's what the defense is claiming the prosecutors are trying to do. i agree with you. the only one that can make you look bad is yourself and that's exactly what tot mom has done.
but about her standing up and admitting she did it, her parents' home is now being foreclosed and i wonder how much money they've tossed into this. good money after bad. ellie jostad, about how much money do we know of or th we -- it's been reported that tot mom's family has received for their stories, interviews, licensing fees for photos. >> right. >> how much money? >> right, nancy. well according to a nch of different sources, she was paid or the family was paid or their lawyer was paid up towards of $200,000 to $225,000 far interview or license the photos and pictures you were talking about. we heard about another news original sthaigs paid the family $6,500 or their representative that money and a $5,000 interview fee tossed out there and talking about it altogether, we're most up to $300,000.
>> that's that we know of, ellie. >>ight. that's correct. >> out to natisha lance also on the story. thatty that, didn't tot mom's parent's just get back from a lex ri cruise they allegedly paid for with money from cbs? >> that's correct, nancy. they did take a cruise. we are understanding they did use the money from the cbs interview to go on that cruise. but in addition to that, nancy, and particularly the photos in the blue dress, i want to point out that casey anthony said she was doing her own investigating trying to go to places gonzalez was hanging out the try to find caylee. >> out to leonard pa lil la, bounty hunter, joining us out of sacramento, california. leonard, what do you me of casey anthony now claiming she is broke and we the taxpayer haves to foot the bill? >> well, the justice system that we work und in america
provides for counsel and if you're indigent, the taxpayers have to in a round about way have to pay for it. >> but does the taxpayers have to pay for a $1 million defense? where does it say that in the constitution? >> upwards of $3 million by the time they get appeals and everything done. >> i think she fabricated the stories because she didn't have caylee wh her and she knew if she came home without caylee there would be a red flag. >> and that red flag would mean that something was wrong? >> something happened, right.
i just want to let everyone know that i'm sorry for what i did. >> casey anthony's defense team on a mission to repair her reputation. asking that all hearsay and gossip about their client be excluded from trial. the stealing -- >> taking money from my wife's purse. she forged a deposit slip for $4,400. >> check number 146 from her ex-best friend's checkbook.
investigators say this is one of the checks she used to clean out amy huizinga's checking account. >> she was le, maybe this should have be done a long time ago. stolen money from mom, i've been a bad daughter, i've been -- she said, i stole money fr you >> then there's casey anthony. the alleged party girl. >> huizinga tells investigators, i know she had started smoking more pot than she ever had. the statemenabout casey referred to mid-june. right around the time caylee was last seen. >> so many text messages casey received and also she sent out. those were her favore topics. who she wanted to have sex with, drinking and smoking pot. that seemed to be the things she was concentrating on mostly. not about caylee. >> and the alleged lies. >> i still have that feeling, that presence. i know that she's alive. i do not know where she is. the last person i saw her with was zenaida. >> we can all tell that from the last couple years, casey is a very effective liar. >> i would not let anything happen to my daughter.
cept i knead mistake of trusting another person with her. that's it. >> i would use the word diabolical to describe the way she lies. >> attorney jose baez says casey has suffered the public's hatred and that law enforcement or the state attorney's office has successfully tried a homicide casegainst the defendant in the public eye. >> straight back out to ellie jostad. ellie, aside from the party photos of her out partying, scantily clad, significance, is it's immediately after she says her little girl has been kidnapped in a public park. aside from that, aside from the 911 call, her own mother, cindy anthony, says that tot mom's car smells like a dead body, what else do they want suppssed? >> nancy, there's a bunch of statements here and a lot of them have to do with casey anthony being a liar. various people say that she lied or that cindy told me she'd been telling lies. lee anthony told me she'd been telling lies. george anthony said she'd been telling lies. >> what about the fight?
the alleged fight. fistfight between grandmother, cindy anthony, and tot mom casey anthony. >> well this, cording to jesse und, the ex-boyfriend and his father, the original information came from lee anthony. he said that just a couple nights or actually the night before, i believe, caylee went missing that cindy and casey got into a very heated argument, so heated it actually became physical. that cindy put her hands around casey anthony's neck. >> out to leonard padilla, bounty hunter ouof sacramento, california, who put up the bond for tot mom to get out of jail. she was later rearrested. leonard, what do you know about a physical confrontation between casey anthony and grandmother, cindy anthony? >> it took place the evening of the 15th wch was father's day. and cindy and thbabyad come back from visiting cindy's parents and at that time the
parents told her that casey had stolen money out of her account. when she got into the discussion with casey, casey tried to kind of write it off as, no, it didn't take place, somebody's lying. and cindy just lost it and went after her, and basically, the statements that jesse and lee made were the same as what i heard from them. and that was that the confrontation got so heated that cindy actually knocked casey down and had her -- was strangling her, and except for the interference of, i think it was george at the time, she was trying to hurt casey. >> now, leonard padilla, is this just before or just after caylee goes missing? >> it was the evening right before. see, george says he last saw the child on the 16th around noon. >> right. >> we're of the opinion, as some other people are, that casey gathered up her child that night and left that night. she was never there overnight. she left that night and george
did not see that child the next day. george was lying about that. >> back to diane in new york's question about the tape. the duct tape being placed over the child's mouth. postmortem, after death. in kind of a loving gesture. i don't see it, ellen gamburg, a psychotherapist joining us out of new york. what about you? >> nancy, i think that there is such behavior in total here that that is just irrelevant tohe photos, the lying, the partying. hard to believe that after all that that duct tape would be anything significant. >> i don't see it as any type of loving gesture. unleash the lawyers. sue moss, richard herman, anne bremner. and another thing, sue moss, if that was used by the defense as some type of a loving gesture,
tot mom would have to admit she was there when the baby died. >> oh, absolutely. i mean, why should this woman start being a loving mother now, after she killed her child? i don't see it. >> what about it, anne bremner? >> well, you kw, i think that right now there's no evidence to connect her to the sticker and there are fingerprints of other people on some of the evidence on the child. >> no evidence to connect her to the duct tape? did you just say that? >> they have forensic experts who i'm sure will opine there's not a connection to be made and there are other people's fingerprints on the duct tape that are not explained and don't belong to people in the family. there are all kinds of things the defense can do in this case. xwha they're doing right now, as you know, nancy, is like surgery. getting rid of all the bad statements. getting rid of all the bad pictures. >> like what sorts of things? what can they claim? because she gave a statement her child was taken in plain, broad daylight at a park. then she gave another statement she dropped the child off at saw grass apartments. you know? you can't survive giving conflicting statements to police.
>> what i was talking about were the statements we're talking about today. all of the heaay statements. the scores of hearsay statements that they're going to try to keep out and i think there's a lot of great arguments they can make. they're going to try and keep out all kinds of things until they get to the nut of the case in terms of the defense. >> what about it, richard? >> anne is right, nancy. i mean, this is not a tv show or a miniseries. >> come up with your own thought. don't piggyback anne is right. come on, herman. >> nancy, come on. >> she's not right on the law. >> she is right on the law. >> those statements are coming in. all right? especially the 911 call. >> the 911 call, i absolutely agree with you, is absolutely coming in. >> why is bremner right? you don't -- you know what? never mind. hold on. back to you. ellie jostad, we just heard anne bremner opine, as she says, that the duct tape cannot be traced back to tot mom. now, ellie, isn't it true that this type of duct tape, i believe it's hinkle duct tape,
is extremely, let me say, scarce. it's not rare, but it's scarce. it's difficult to find. isn't it true, ellie, that this duct tape was found in the anthony home? >> yeah. that's right, nancy. according to the reports we've received, this type of tape matched tape that was at the house. now, what they said, it was either from the same roll or it was manufactured in the same way. they also provided tons of paperwork abouthe stores that sell this tape. most of the big-box stores out there like walmart, home depot, don't sell it. it's a hard kind of tape to find and it was also on a gas can in the anthony home. >> i wt to go out to dr. joshua perper. chief medical examiner, broward county. author of "when to call the doctor." he is highly esteein his field. it is our honor to have him on with us tonight. dr. perper, today the state really pulled one over on us. everybody was screaming, please, show us the dna. they gave us the actual graphs
of the dna which looks like an electrocardiogram or heartbeat. also, i remember the first time i brought in dna at trial, and i told scientist, bring it in. i want to show it to the jury. i was shocked. it looked like unrolled negatives that had gone bad. showing us this, it doesn't tell us a thing about what dna proves. in this case, dr. perper, what role do you see dna playing? >> well, in my opinion, it's not going to be of highly probative value because if it's going to be found on evidence close to the child the mother took care of the child so she's going to claim that those fingerprints were there beforehand. so it's very difficult to see on what kind of piece of evidence this kind of matching of dna versus the dna of the mother is
going to be helpful because of the close proximity in the care or the alleged care of the child by the mother. so it's very unlikely that it's going to play any significant role. >> well put, dr. perper. except, very quickly, ellie jostad, if dna turns up on the homemade knockout drug and the syringes beside the remains, many people believe that was used to knock little caylee out, if there is tot mom's dna on that, there's no legitimate reason it should be there. >> right. the big bombshell we've been waiting for is dna evidence on the duct tape or the syringe? that would definitely look bad for the defense. so we don't have those documents released. >> chloroform. chloroform. homemade chloroform. as we go to break, happy 18th birthday to friend, stephanie. she is a freshman at purdue. what a smile. studying prela dreams of being a lawyer. never misses the show. happy birthday, stephanie.
literally tied, and i was put in a position where someone's trying to trick a confession out of me and that's not going to happen. >> mr. bae we mirandized her, at 4:22. she invoked. quit the finger pointing, okay? >> i'm trying to think, does she really do it only to better herself or say white lies just to do it? i'm really trying to think now. because sometimes it seems like she lies just to lie. >> i think he may have said i drowned caylee. i think. i think that's what they're trying to say. >> that you intentionally drowned caylee? >> yeah. >> where was that supposed to have happened? >> i think in the pool in the backyard. >> i as a mom, i know in my gut, the feeling as a parent, you know certain things about your child. you can feel that connection. and i still have that feeling, that presence. i know that she's alive. >> witnesses say casey and cindy had a terrible fight over ney casey stole from cindy's mother. california bounty hunter leonard padilla who bonded casey out of jail says lee told him lee tried to choke casey on father's day
and that's when she took off with caylee. casey denies it. >> it got into a very heated argument which turned physical and cindy started choking casey. >> straight out to the lines. julie in florida. hi, julie. >> caller: hey, nancy. loved your book. >> thank you. >> caller: i have a quick commt and a question. first thing, good chance that her parents could never sell that house, that that baby may have been killed in. it's probably easier for them to let it go into foreclosure. they're going to get a bunch of book deal, movie deal moy, anyways eventually, most likely, because of all the press on this. secondly, i've noticed from watching a lot of these defendants at their arraignments in court hearings, a particular habit of eye movement, especially of casey anthony, before she was arrested with her fake tears and interviews, she was always gazing down like she's remembering something of what she did. have you noticed that, too? >> i always notice her gazing down, for instance, in this photo we were just showing you, the video, covering her face
with her hair. then there were other times she s would put it back in a ponytail but continue to look down. and, you know, not that i think the lawyers are experts in nonverbal communication, but sue moss, richard herman, anne bremner, when you would -- when i would get a defendant on the stand and they couldn't look at me and answer, i would flat-out say, why can't you look at me? why can't you look at the jury and answer? why do you have to look down or why do you have to look over at your attorney? is he telling you the answer? i mean, when you can't look up and look around at people in the courtrm, to me, that's significant. e? >> oh, absolutely. and the reason why she's looking down is because most of that time she was pretending to cry but no real tears were coming down. she was looking down so the cameras couldn't capture her in yet another lie. >> richard herman, don't you hate it when your client tries
and tries to cry and then nothing comes out? >> when my clients try to cry they do cry. she's facing the death penalty nancy. >> because you punch them in the ribs with that elbow y've got. >> no, she's facing the death penalty here. this is a very serious case. and so, what, are you going to try to interpret every gesture she makes? i don't even know what sue moss is talking about here. it's ridiculous. >> richard herman, that was an excellent -- i didn't know you could dance so well. the way you danced out of answering that question. and bremner, can you just be straight? when you can't look somebody in the eye and answer and can't look around the courtroom and look people in the face, to me that is suggestive. >> it's a problem when i'm defending somebody. >> it's a problem. >> it's a problem but i'll tell you, nancy, everybody reacts differently. you have heard that a million times but it's absolutely true. >> lord. >> it's true. >> no show with you would have be complete if you hadn't thrown that out there. back to you, kathi belich, with wftv. kathi, tell me what else is happening in the case right now.
i know the defense wants so much of the state's evidence thrown ouof court. i don't think the judge is going to do it. they want her declared indigent so we, the taxpayers, have to pay for her defense. what else am i missing? >> there's a hearing next week about the indigency issue, the judge will decide whether to find her indigent, whether the taxpayers will pay for the rest of the costs of her defense. we have a deadline ticking here. the new evidence that has surfaced, that's under investigation, prosecutors asked the judge for permission to keep it secret from the defense. the judge agreed to do that 30 days. that deadline is coming up in about 3 weeks, 2 1/2 weeks from now. if psecurs want to extend it they have to justify to the judge why they think that needs to be extended. also, there's more than 1,000 pages of new evidence the defense has recently received that we should be getting soon, as well. some of it concerning a very troubled woman who's trying to edge her way into this case and
i have a 3-year-old that's been missing for a month. >> a 3-year-old? >> yes. >> have you reported that? >> i'm trying to do that now, ma'am. >> okay. what did the person do that you need arrested? >> my daughter. >> for what? >> for stealing an auto and stealing money. >> not to mention the granddaughter that was missing, 2-year-old caylee. out to sergeant scott hanes. sheriff's officer, santa rosa
county, california. isn't it true that this 911 call meets all the criteria to be admitted at trial? it's your specialty. you get 911 calls every day. >> absolutely. law enforcement agencies are constantly answering 911 calls. in florida, there's three requirements to meet for excited utterance. and this call meets every one to a tee. mrs. anthony, first element she was required to witness something that was so shocking or startling to her that the utterance took place. when you smell a smell like that coming from your daughter's vehicle and you believe that that is possibly your dead granddaughter, that is something th is startling enough to cause you to say things such as that. and the second thing, she was under stress from that event, which is the second requirement. because it's clear iher voice. and the third requirement is that she didn't have time to contrive or misrepresent that. so i think there's not going to be any issues at all getting that 911 call in. and i also don't think -- i
think they are going to be very cky if any of this gets withheld in court. i think they have a good shot of getting it all into court. >> sergeant scott haines out of pensacola, florida, the same jurisdiction there in florida as tot mom's trial. florida law has a lot of nuances other jurisdictions don't have. thank you, sergeant. quickly, jeanette in florida, what's your question? >> caller: hey, nancy, you're one of a kind. god bless you and your children. they are huggable. >> thank you, love. what's your question? >> caller: okay. my question is, this nancy. the video that they show of her having a time buying the beer. >> right. >> caller: does that go in pla to the jury? can they show that to the jury? is there any question -- >> you know what? here's my theory, jeannette in florida, that it will come in only because that happened during the time tot mom says she's looking for caylee. so i guess she was looking in the beer section of target. so, yes, i think it ll come
in. everybody, let's stop and remember army sergeant jeremy barnett, 27, mineral city, ohio, awarded the purple heart. served in the navy, lost his life in germany with his family by his side. an organ donor. saved the life of a 51-year-old. he loved fishing, hunting, leaves behind parents david and michelle, stepmother angie, four sisters and e brother. widow, stephanie, a member of the texas national guard. jeremy barnett. american hero. thanks to our guests but especially you for being with us. and a special good night for our texas friends, emily, lori, john, sharon, john, everyone. aren't they a good-looking bunch? i'll see you tomorrow night 8:00 sharp eastern, and until then, good night, friend.